Delphi murder trial: Libby Herman’s blood likely mixed with her tears, says expert in Richard Allen’s murder trial

DELPHI, Indiana — A pattern on the body of Delphi, Indiana homicide victim Libby German showed her blood was mixed with moisture, an officer testified at Richard Allen’s trial. The officer said he believed the moisture was Libby’s tears, which caused family members watching his testimony in the courtroom to react to the sound.

Libby, 14, and her best friend, Abby Williams, 13, were walking along a hiking trail in rural Delphi when their throats were slit and left in the woods on February 13, 2017. Their bodies were found the next day.

Allen was arrested in 2022 and pleaded not guilty to murder.

Major Pat Cicero of the LaPorte County Sheriff’s Department spoke Monday. Cicero was not at the crime scene in 2017, but he said he studied crime scene photos and various reports.

Abby’s mother wept quietly in the courtroom as prosecutors showed close-up photos of the girls’ bodies, arms, legs and feet.

Cicero showed the jury a picture of a bloodstain on a tree. He explained that it was a transfer stain, meaning it was left when a bloody object touched it.

Cicero testified that the bloodstains and patterns on the wood led him to believe that the attack on Libby began in the wood, with gunshots that likely caused spatter on the wood.

According to Cicero, Libby died of her wounds in a large pool of blood as she leaned against a tree. He said he believes she was then dragged about 20 feet to where her body was found.

Cicero said Abby was likely shackled or unconscious when she was killed because there was no blood on her arms and hands and she was found with her arms raised vertically.

“Her final stance is almost like she was boxing,” he said.

Cicero said he had visited hundreds of crime scenes and described the position of Abby’s body as highly unusual. “I’ve never seen that,” he said.

He also said that Abby probably didn’t die right away. “It would take some time,” he said.

Allen admitted to being on the hiking trail the day the girls were killed, but denied any involvement in the murders.

Also Monday, Indiana State Police forensics expert Stacey Bozinowski said no DNA linked Allen to the Delphi, Indiana, murder scene.

RELATED | Delphi murder trial: Extended video from victim’s phone played in court

Jurors listen to tapes of Richard Allen’s interview

Tuesday began with jurors reviewing two interviews Allen had with police before his arrest.

It was the first time Allen’s voice was heard in court.

Judge Frances Gall told jurors that parts of the video had been removed because they were not relevant to the investigation.

First, the state reproduced an Oct. 13, 2022, interview with Carroll County Sheriff’s Office Investigator Steve Mullin and Chief Deputy and now Sheriff Tony Liggett. The video lasted about 90 minutes.

Allen described himself in the video. He explained that he is a husband and a father. He grew up in Mexico, Indiana and served in the National Guard for most of his life. Allen also told Mullin and Liggett that he had a heart attack in 2010 at the age of 37 and suffers from depression and anxiety.

Allen said he has worked at CVS since 2013 and before that spent 10 years at Walmart.

The interview then shifts to February 13, 2017, the day Libby and Abby disappeared. Allen said he was at his mother’s house in Peru, Indiana, while his wife was working. He estimated he left his mother around 11:15 a.m. and arrived on the Monon High Trail around noon.

Allen could not remember exactly where he had parked his car. When asked about his route, Allen told investigators, “A winding path.”

Mullin asked Allen if there was any other way he could get there. Allen replied, “Maybe,” but he always took the same route through downtown Delph.

Allen said he told his wife he was on the trail the day the girls disappeared. After the killings, she said, police tried to talk to people who might have information. Allen went to the sheriff’s office and set up an interview with Department of Natural Resources Officer Dan Doolan. Allen only spoke to Doolan a few days after Libby and Abby were found dead.

Ultimately, the interview was misfiled and went unnoticed for nearly five years.

During a videotaped interview, Allen told Liggett and Mullin that he passed three girls on the trail.

Allen said: “I really don’t remember seeing anyone else that day. If I could see them, they didn’t rush at me.”

Allen said he was monitoring the stock ticker on his phone during the investigation. After leaving, he said he went home and continued to watch the stock market to “try to get rich.” He said he considers it a hobby.

Allen described his time on the Monon High Bridge. He said he went out on the platform to look at the fish and then left the trail at 1:30 or 1:45 p.m.

Allen said he saw cars parked at the entrance to the Mears track when he arrived. When he returned to his car after the walk, Allen said there were no more vehicles.

Liggett and Mullin asked him what car he drove to the track. He said he usually drives a gray Ford 500, but picked up a black car when he drove outside of Delphi. Investigators believe he was driving his black 2016 Ford Focus.

Allen told investigators he was wearing blue jeans and a Carhartt jacket. He said he had a black and blue jacket on at the time, but he believed he was wearing a black one. Liggett asked if he was wearing a hat, but Allen replied that if he had, it would have been the “tumbler” he kept in his jacket pockets. Allen said he was wearing tennis shoes or military-style boots.

The interview became tense when Liggett and Mullin asked to see Allen’s phone. Allen asked how long it would take them and said he was using Verizon’s Ting for mobile. Allen said he didn’t think he still had his 2017 phone and believed his wife had recycled it.

Liggett asked if they could confirm some of the information by searching Allen’s home and pulling data from his phone.

Allen then said, “Sounds like I’m going to be a fan.”

Mullin read the warrant to Allen, to which Allen responded, “From the conversation we’re having, you seem to think I could have done it.”

Liggett then assured Allen that they were just “crossing the Ts and dotting the Is” when they spoke to people who were on the trails on February 13, 2017.

Allen replied, “I’m not going to have the police going around my house and stuff.”

Allen initially gave police the passcode to his phone, then changed his mind.

He told investigators: “You know what. Let me talk to my wife before we do anything.”

Mullin told Allen they wanted to search his house to rule him out.

Allen replied: “I had nothing to do with it. I don’t want to be drawn into it any more than I have to.”

The interview becomes increasingly tense as the investigators ask Allen if he is the “Bridge Guy”.

Allen said, “I’ve never met them,” referring to the girls.

Allen continued to deny any involvement in the crime as they continued to show him the “Bridge Guy” photo.

“It’s not me. If it’s done by the girls’ phone, it’s not me,” he said.

Liggett said, “He’s wearing the same clothes you told us. Just tell us what happened.”

It was then that Allen began to close the interview.

He said: “It’s over with us. Your attitude towards me has changed. I feel like I’m being interrogated.”

Allen went on to say, “You will find nothing to connect me to the murders; so I’m not worried about it. So arrest me or take me home.”

Allen then got angry and said, “Are you arresting me? Are you arresting me?” He added: “You have lost my trust. This is nonsense. Now you’re annoying me.”

After the interview, Allen was taken home. A few hours later, the police arrived with a warrant and searched his residence.

The jury then saw Allen’s interview with Indiana State Police investigator Jerry Holman. It happened on October 26, 2022.

The video begins with Holeman telling Allen what they took from his home during the police search and what they are investigating. Holeman asked if Allen had ever lent anything of his possessions, such as a gun, to anyone. He answered no.

Holeman asked Allen if he had a gun with him during the walk on February 13, 2017. He said that he was not with him.

In the video, Holeman tells Allen that his SIG SAUER matches an unused round from the crime scene. Allen laughs and says, “No way.”

Holeman told Allen that the media was going to paint him as a monster and the only way out was to tell the truth. Holeman then pressed Allen, saying, “Why did you say ‘it’s over’ on the search warrant?”

Allen replied, “You talked to people I worked with. You talked to my neighbors.” Holeman then told Allen, “The evidence shows you’re involved.” Allen went on to say, “There is no way my gun was fired anywhere near the girls. You are trying to say that I killed two girls. I’m done The damage is done. Just do what you’re going to do.”

Holeman continued, saying, “I don’t think you killed them. Allen said: “Anyone who knows me knows that I could never do anything like that. I didn’t kill two little girls. You’re trying to convince me to confess to something I didn’t do.”

In the video, Holeman goes to ask a technician to take a swab from Allen’s mouth for a DNA sample.

Holeman continues: “The ball is in your court. I’m trying to help you. Why does all this evidence point to you?”

“I can’t tell you,” Allen said.

Holeman then tells Allen that he has five witnesses who identified Allen on the bridge with the girls on the day of the murder. Holeman testified Saturday that he lied about the interview tactics. Allen responded to Holeman by saying, “It didn’t happen. They didn’t see me among the girls because I wasn’t around them. I’m not going to confess to something I didn’t do.”

Holeman continued to press Allen, and Allen became more and more anxious.

Allen said: “I’m not going to admit to something I didn’t do. I’m done If you’re going to arrest me, arrest me. I’m done I will say no more. It’s funny.”

He went on to say, “I don’t think anything you have will show me the murder of two little girls.”

Holeman then turned to the unused cartridge found between the girls’ bodies. He explained to Allen how the ordeal had tied him to his gun. Allen then replied, “There is no way the bullet from my gun was found at the scene of the murder.”

Holeman gives him several other opportunities to confess to the crime, to which Allen replies, “I didn’t kill two little girls.” Then Holeman asked, “What did you do?” Allen replied, “I went for a walk on the trail and went home.”

ABC News’ Jenelle Klein contributed to this report.